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... of my expectations, and for several years that’s all I thought about. I could really care less about how the programs were managed as long as we kept working in the ... the simulation methodology, which stressed rules. The simulation folks knew as much about our business as we knew about our business, so we’d write a set of mission rules for some ... one of those events, it allows you to think about the thing you didn’t think about as opposed to the things you thought about, if you see what I mean. It narrows ...

... something, they were high performance, but we were only going to be talking about a capsule that weighed about 2,000 pounds, to put a man up there for maybe three to ... as he's there, I don't worry about the Shuttle missions. I still worry about the other flights, which we talked a little bit about, the unmanned programs and the cheaper, faster ... went to Headquarters, he would sit at the thing and bitch about the flight rules and bitch about JSC and bitch about the Shuttle being so expensive, and all these redundant systems. Well ...

... me to White Sands Test Facility, Las Cruces, New Mexico , so I spent about, I think it was about ten days at White Sands, watching them do all kinds of adiabatic detonation ... :''' I don’t even remember what the name of the committee was, but about a day—it was about a day after the accident, maybe two days, I was asked to go ... the final report of the Apollo 1 investigation came out, how did you feel about what it said about North American? Did you feel it was a fair evaluation or maybe unfair ...

... a lot from it because there isn’t a lot of good information down about both programs and about some of the intricacies behind them and the challenges. It’s been very ... management who would just worry about cost and schedule and not worry about these other three items that I’ve talked about. Where are we here? '''Butler:''' Talking about and mentioning the window in ... have had other people evaluate you and I’ve polled all my division chiefs about what they think about you and others.” His comment was that their total evaluation was that I ...

... pieces of equipment. Now, obviously, there were electrical engineers that worried about that. There were thermal engineers that worried about that. I was responsible for human factors. Can the astronaut perform the ... to teach the class, sitting on the edge of the crater. You talk about shield volcanoes. You talk about nuée ardentes, you go up to the Valley of Ten Thousand Smokes in ... worked on the CFES Continuous Flow Electrophoresis System experiment for a while. Can you talk about that, the Continuous Flow Electrophoresis experiments? '''Lind:''' Oh yes. They needed some help on it ...

... on a telecon, and that seemed to work out pretty well. About that time in my life I started thinking about all this, and as you can see, I started off, I ... than normal everyday life. '''Gregory:''' Right. '''Butler:''' Moving into the Apollo Program, you talked some about the fire and rebuilding from that and revamping. Were you involved in aspects of the ... I'm looking at it. "What in the hell is he talking about?" I had no idea. He's about 20 sizes ahead of me on what he's studying and stuff ...

... these scientific missions should have genuine scientific backgrounds and not be test pilots. NASA thought about that for a while, thinking, “This is a highly technical, highly risky, test-piloting program ... we wanted to specialize in different areas. I did not know much about lunar modules, but I knew a lot about suits and I was a good command module person, having spent ... ? '''Kerwin:''' Unless I got very detailed, there wasn’t much to tell about that. You brief the ongoing crew about where things are, what the hard and easy things were to do ...

... taking data on phenomena that the scientists really want to learn more about. '''Butler:''' There certainly was a lot learned about the Earth through the Skylab Program in particular, because you were ... lose the calcium. And every time I come down here for a physical, they talk about my condition as being postmenopausal. Laughter '''Butler:''' Well, that's interesting. '''Gibson:''' Kind of interesting ...

... noise on a subject that you know nothing about, and let her talk to you about a subject you know what she's talking about, and I will guarantee you on the subject ... , a good group, a lot of fun. A little different. That's about the most I can tell you about that. '''Rusnak:''' If we can take this opportunity to change out our ... the next flight that things really changed for me. Not much else to say about it. That's about it. '''Rusnak:''' For 15, a big change is the first of the J ...

... good to have that family support. '''Pavelka:''' It was. '''Butler:''' How did you then learn about the opportunity at NASA? Did you move right into that after college? '''Pavelka:''' It was ... builds. So on the way to the Moon, we began to feel better about our deep space tracking, about our mid-course calculations. So then comes the time of going into lunar ... we're going to." So those are the things that you're thinking about, and we had thought about those earlier coming back from the Moon, too. But again, this time we ...

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